APPS

[Susan]

Hello,
I work for APPS, after reading a TON of posts on here, I'm curious as to why many examiners hate APPS so much? I've heard the pay scale is too low (unfortunately I'm not in a position to fix that, tho I've tried) but I try my hardest everyday to make sure I'm not being demanding of the examiners and that we work together rather than one above the other. So I'd like to hear from examiners, what exactly we could do to make your job better
Thanks!

[Guest]

Well for starters their chasing of packet business gives the impression that they'll take anything they can get their hands on. No matter how shitty the work. The fact that they pay crap for it just solidifies the impression.

Add to that how poorly they pay. Nobody should be paid less than $30 for a PBU and we routinely hear about them paying less than $25. Then they force examiners to rent equipment when that same equipment is provided by other companies. It's obvious they're more than willing to cheat examiners.

Then the way they treated the Portamedic Direct examiners; took them on board only long enough to steal their agents or to cover those areas and then dump them.

APPS has earned and deserves to be hated, but at least they got their initials right.

Abusive Pathologically Predatory Sociopaths

[Guest]

APPS - ABUSIVE -PATHOLOGICAL -PREDATORY-SOCIOPATHS, HILARIOUS

[Guest]

I work for APPS. Used to be "full time", but now only limited hours because I landed a full time job with a lab. I had to threaten to walk away from my territory in the lower populated areas of the state in which I live to get a raise from 19.00 per case to 24.00 on my last contract. That 24.00 is for ANY case, whether is measurements, blood and urine or a full packet, paramed, blood, urine and ekg. We print our own packets, and on our new contract we are required to pay a 12.50 "administrative fee" per pay period. I've asked several times exactly what that entails, but have received no answers thus far. I have my own centrifuge and lap top, but they wanted me to start paying 10.00 per pay period to rent an ekg machine. I told them I would be more than happy to box up my machine and send it back to them. So now I'm being scheduled less because I cost more and won't rent anything from them. I also got tired of schedulers bouncing back and forth across two counties because they don't know how to use Google Maps. I used to schedule my own exams, but was required to call clients 7 days a week...including when I was on vacation.

What really cheeses me off, and maybe this is just part of the business and I'm bitter, but l missed a question on a case in July of 2014. I JUST received an email that I missed the question and I would be docked 49.00 for my error. My boss told me that they just received a check from the client, that's what the branch was fined, so they were passing the cost along to me. All that tells me is that they make a LOT more per case than what I get paid.

I think they would like us all to be indentured.

[Guest]

I've heard the pay scale is too low (unfortunately I'm not in a position to fix that, tho I've tried) but I try my hardest everyday to make sure I'm not being demanding of the examiners and that we work together rather than one above the other. So I'd like to hear from examiners, what exactly we could do to make your job better

Let examiners schedule their exams and pay what that is worth to you -if you were going and doing the exam. As far as having to rent equipment to do this- shame on you.

[Guest]

My boss told me that they just received a check from the client, that's what the branch was fined, so they were passing the cost along to me.

For missing one question?

This without a doubt pisses me off more than anything when it comes to examiners.

If you didn't challenge it and make them show you in writing that they were penalized and paid the penalty then you deserved getting screwed.

[Guest]

You also get screwed if you challenge.

PC' s get away with anything they have been throwing at examiners for years. Unless more examiners say "no" more often it will never change. This is the cold hard fact -
If it sounds too good to be true- it probably is like APPS advertisement in Indeed for 24.00 / hr. LOL
I will say most experienced examiners get a few paychecks a year that really reflect what they are capable of. Always because now the PC actually needs to pay to cover what ever. The rest of the time it is given always to the cheaper or office kiss B.... or the new hires to show this is what you can make sometimes ( don’t look at your receipts for gas though) ....... That is also fact.

Getting better gets nothing in this business except less work - that is also a fact.

The bottom line is they have to train more idiots to take your job or million dollar call centers that actually do pay a ton of people not much more then minimum wage taking medical history but they do get benefits. It is only if the PC’s call center can’t schedule in office that it filters down to the bottom of the barrel examinier.
Remember what training you got? They even get less now.

So you got to love it not just like it!

[Guest]

A paramed exam , blood and urine takes about 2 hours, 1/2 hour to the appointment, 1/2 hour for the appointment, 1/2 hour back, or to another exam.
Then another 45 min to process, that is including centrifuging, proofing the exam, copying, scanning.. back in the car and driving to the FedEx store.
You must provide a computer, office supplies, auto and gas. Oh I know, write offs!!
Examiners have a job with too much dead time. It actually ends up at about 4 dollars an hour. At how much a paramed? 24.00

Why do you want to run an exam company business??
COnstantly going through examiners, getting complaints from agents, unhappy applicants, chargebacks for mistakes, mainly from new examiners, hiring is a costly addition.
I would not trust too many people to do my job, I am independent and for that reason, would never run an exam company.

APPS - double the pay to the examiner.
The problem is that unhappy, mistreated, used and abused examiners become bitter.
THis is a very dysfunctional business.

[berykute]

First of all, examiners hate the forced pre-sets!!! Seconly your pay scale is belo average. And since the Potamedic buy out APPS is discombomulated.

[Guest]

APPS doesn't care about the examiner. Most offices just want the profit with little regard on how much work an examiner has to do. They take over 50% of what they collect on a exam for less than 5% of the work they do in their office. How hard is it to assign an exam to a examiner.

[Guest]

Exam companies should be required to pay for no shows if they preset an appointment. It's seems only fair if they are managing your time that they pay. Also if your are required to pick up a packet prior to completing the exam and the applicant didn't have it ready some companies don't want you to completed the exam. I say BS, I'm not the agent. It should be the agents job to make sure it's ready. We already wasted our time, and gas.

[Guest]

I agree with you in principle but your 1st mistake is allowing someone to manage/control your time.

far and away one of the dumbest things examiners have ever agreed to.

we are all INDEPENDENT contractors. by definition that means we set our own schedules.

[Guest]

The APPS office I work with allows me to accept or decline a preset - they always ask me if I want the case before I commit to it. I like the fact that they can fill up my schedule and I don't have to play phone tag with flaky clients. Also, if the insurance company pays for the no show, I get paid the no show fee. I still set my own calendar and I only work when I want to work. (Of course that's a lot because I like to make money! LOL)!

[Guest]

Stay away from APPS in Louisiana. The owners their don't know what they are doing and will take advantage of a examiner if you let them.

[Guest]

I just printed a packet of 42 pages 16 of which applied to my part ,get paid 2.50 to print and 2.50 to get signed, what the hell, been a examiner for 10 years and really thinking about a change

[jacilee]

I have my packets printed out by my office... and in a pinch if I have to print them I can just do signature pages....admit they pay less, but I do get leeway with my scheduling and get out of area pay,,,, And they do keep me working,,,,

[Guest]

There are no good exam companies anymore. Now one only chooses which pays a little better with minimal BS. APPS just happens to be one of the ones on the bottom of the list.

[Guest]

Well I think APPS got screwed when they bought Portamedic. I see almost all the contracts that Portamedic had have already migrated over to the other exam companies.

[Examiner78]

Maybe in some areas, but the office that I'm now doing exams for doesn't seem to have missed out on anything. The Portamedic branch I was with before they got bought out wasn't a very big office. APPS in my area had the majority of the work. With my experience, they have been easy to work with. I'm doing more work for APPS now in a week than I was for Portamedic in a month. I guess it depends on where you are and who you're dealing with. The folks in the APPS office are much more willing to help the examiner with anything they need. I've only met the owner less than a handful of times, but he's always been very courteous and asked if I needed anything when he see's me. I was very leary of APPS when the buy out happened after reading pretty much everything on this site, but their owner made a point to talk to everyone individually to tell them what's going on. He seems to be a good guy and is very helpful is something comes up. But like I said, I guess it depends on the area you're in. For me, the buy out has been very helpful. Just my opinion.

[Guest]

Apps doesn't pay worth a damm. So there maybe work to do for them but it's all the cheap cases like State Farm.

[Examiner78]

If you've been doing this job for a long time (I'm currently approaching 15 years), you know as well as I do that all companies pay differently for different requirements. Is State Farm the highest paying company? Of course not. Are they the lowest? No, have you seen what Minnesota Life pays for vitals, blood, and urine? An "amazing" $60 to the PC. That's the lowest fee I've seen for an IC. State Farm doesn't pay much more but they do pay more. Not every case is a Modern Woodman or KofC. If you get down to the details of it all, I think most examiners will see that between all IC's, the average case paid to a PC is probably anywhere between $75-$85 for blood, urine, and exam. While not all PC's pay the same (shame on the one's that pay someone $20 for leaving their house), I strongly believe there is a happy medium somewhere wayyyyyyy out there. You just have to find that number. When Portamedic was bought, our local APPS person kept the examiner fee's the same as they were with Portamedic. If you go back and look at your Portamedic pay sheets throughout the years, you'll see that some cases paid a examiner $8.xx (Prudential/Vitals). While not all of my APPS cases go in my favor, a lot of them do. Go back and look at your pay sheets for different requirements and compare them to what you're currently getting. Like I said, it's not always in my favor but most of the time it is. I'd rather do 3-4 cases a day for companies like Northwestern Mutual or Mass Mutual then to wait on one of my MW of KofC agents to call me and expect it done yesterday. I feel I've got a pretty good deal with the APPS office where I am, I have a billing agreement with them for my directs and they send me branch orders. I'm getting the best of both worlds essentially. We have a written agreement that they will not go after my direct agents and I will not go after the agents on orders I receive. I know with that last statement, I'm going to catch grief with people saying "they just aren't telling you that they are calling on them" etc. BUT I follow up with my agents when I know that the APPS sales rep is in my area marketing to agents. I've never had an agent tell me that she tried to get them to switch from using me. It just comes down to the caliber of people you're contracting with. To all the Negative Nancy's, there are some decent people in this world still.

[Guest]

I think most examiners will see that between all IC's, the average case paid to a PC is probably anywhere between $75-$85 for blood, urine, and exam

Which is a ridiculously low amount for what they're getting.

The name of the game is risk assessment.
What we provide is a means of lowering the IC's risk of having to pay out on clients who are in poor to average health.

It's very similar to the idea behind home inspections.
But to protect an investment of $100,000 to $250,000 the average cost of a home inspection is $400-$500.

The ICs pay LESS THAN A QUARTER OF THAT AMOUNT to protect their investments and their typical investment ranges anywhere from $100,000 to $1,000,000 !!!

There's something wrong with this picture.

Do I think our services are worth $400-$500?
Maybe, maybe not.
But it's worth a hell of a lot more than $75-$85.

If every examiner expected $50 for a PBU (which, if you think about it, is very reasonable based on a 2 hour average and providing door to door service) the PCs would be forced to charge the ICs more if they wanted to stay profitable.

Bottom line:
If we don't put a higher value on what we do and what they get from us, why should they?

[HolyRoller]

It should never take 2 hours to do an exam, blood, and urine. Not even if you're having to look up Dr info at home. I'm hoping that was a typo.

[Guest]

It wasn't a typo.

1/2 hour travel to
1/2 hour travel from
1/2 hour for the exam
1/2 hour misc. (scheduling calls, statusing, processing, scanning, packaging, etc.)

All ballpark figures but if you total every minute of work spent on completing an exam, 2 hours is a reasonable average. There will obviously be exceptions.

Part of the problem is many examiners don't take a hard look at the actual amount of time they spend working each exam. Most look at the time it takes to do the exam and don't factor in all the other stuff. But all the other stuff constitutes a significant amount of time.

[Guest]

Amen to above post!

I was coming back to say the same when I see someone beat me to it. The exam companies only pay you for the exam - not the time to get there or the rest of time to complete. So when you all factor in the 25.00 which most PC are now paying for the PBU that's 12.50/hr but before you get to saying well that's ok - the other factor is the gas and maintenance on your vehicle. For me I figure for every 20 mi I drive that was a gallon of gas. My exams are mainly in town driving. Out of town I get better mileage but more miles. Then the sticker on my car said it will cost .56 mile to maintain this car. Anyway that is my formula. That's way the last PC I contracted with got me for a 10 mile radius of my home only unless they paid more.

But there are always others that will step in and work like crazy thinking it will pay off - because they always give the newbies business just to see what they will do and how far they will go for the same money for the exam that was in that 10 mile radius. If you are turning in work on time and they are having no problems or too many errors and especially if you are not saying ANYTHING about the mileage you will probably get about 6 weeks of steady work.
Then a few things will happen-
1. You realize for the amount of work you put in you should be seeing more profit- but you forgot the gas- maintenance- and completion time.
2. You talk to office and say you think you need more money to go out of town...etc
3. Another person will walk into office and get hired and the cycle begins again.

And don't forget the fines and dings along with someone else scheduling your exams.

[Guest]

First of all Portamedic paid pretty well years ago and it was a percentage. APPS was barely on the radar. But then Exam One was born and low balled all the contracts. So now the pay out is terrible for these exams. One of the reason you mostly see phlebotomist doing this business and not medical personnel with a degree.

[Guest]

Well I stopped doing packet work for APPS and noticed how much more profitable I became. If you calculate the amount of time it takes to deal with that crap your left with working less than minimum wage. And the last I checked we don't get commission checks like the agents do.

[Guest]

Part of the problem is many examiners don't take a hard look at the actual amount of time they spend working each exam. Most look at the time it takes to do the exam and don't factor in all the other stuff. But all the other stuff constitutes a significant amount of time.

I couldn't agree more. I used to be one of those people.

I'd walk out of an exam thinking "$25 for 25 minutes, that's pretty good pay" but then I'd get my check and realize I worked 60 hours over the past 2 weeks and all I made was $250 per week. And that was before deducting my expenses.

It's easy to overlook all the hours you spend working when you're able to do your grocery shopping or pick up the kids from daycare while you're out doing exams, but it's a lot of hours.

The hardest part to figure accurately for how many hours you're working, is the pre and post exam hours. That time you spend doing your "office work" at home. You're comfortable, you're in your slippers. So it's easy to forget about counting those hours. But it's still time you spent working.

I was stunned by how poor the pay is when I really sat down and added everything up.

[Guest]

The best thing that I could have done is drop APPS a few months ago. They have become a whore to the insurance companies with all that packet business. With all the direct work I have I make more money and have more free time.

[Seasoned Ex]

Maybe in some areas, but the office that I'm now doing exams for doesn't seem to have missed out on anything. The Portamedic branch I was with before they got bought out wasn't a very big office. APPS in my area had the majority of the work. With my experience, they have been easy to work with. I'm doing more work for APPS now in a week than I was for Portamedic in a month. I guess it depends on where you are and who you're dealing with. The folks in the APPS office are much more willing to help the examiner with anything they need. I've only met the owner less than a handful of times, but he's always been very courteous and asked if I needed anything when he see's me. I was very leary of APPS when the buy out happened after reading pretty much everything on this site, but their owner made a point to talk to everyone individually to tell them what's going on. He seems to be a good guy and is very helpful is something comes up. But like I said, I guess it depends on the area you're in. For me, the buy out has been very helpful. Just my opinion.

The same thing happened to me. My workload doubled, at first. They approved a reasonable fee, lower than Portamedic's, and I began just working so much more. I believe this is because Portamedic lied about how big they were and that they were the number 1 PC in the land. Also, the BM is out in the field almost everyday stealing every other company's clients by under bidding them. Eighteen months into the buyout, the BM lowered my fee again and stopped paying for packet business. The BM said this was because APPS was not paid for them and that I was making more than APPS on the exams. I believe that was a lie also. Yes, the people in the office are helpful. However, watch out for the one who assists the BM. If you push them and really advocate for yourself, because they ARE cheating most examiners, whether it's your fee or the non-payment of packets or whatever, they will get rid of you. Remember, the customer is always right. If one of those applicants lies about anything you did or didn't do, you are out. So don't get too comfortable. ALWAYS, ALWAYS work for another company or have an alternative means of income. This industry, at least from APPS point of view, is VERY cutthroat and really doesn't give a fig about the main foundation of their business, the examiners.

[Seasoned Ex]

A paramed exam , blood and urine takes about 2 hours, 1/2 hour to the appointment, 1/2 hour for the appointment, 1/2 hour back, or to another exam.
Then another 45 min to process, that is including centrifuging, proofing the exam, copying, scanning.. back in the car and driving to the FedEx store.
You must provide a computer, office supplies, auto and gas. Oh I know, write offs!!
Examiners have a job with too much dead time. It actually ends up at about 4 dollars an hour. At how much a paramed? 24.00

Why do you want to run an exam company business??
COnstantly going through examiners, getting complaints from agents, unhappy applicants, chargebacks for mistakes, mainly from new examiners, hiring is a costly addition.
I would not trust too many people to do my job, I am independent and for that reason, would never run an exam company.

APPS - double the pay to the examiner.
The problem is that unhappy, mistreated, used and abused examiners become bitter.
THis is a very dysfunctional business.

You forgot about the time it takes to prepare the applicant for the exam and later again when you confirm the appt. I made most of my own appts for APPS and I would explain the prep, even though they send a video, everyone is not into email or even on the internet. So, I prepared them at the time of scheduling. Then, when you confirm, they still ask you what they have to do. It is a crazy business. I really managed my time and would only make phone calls 1 to 1-1/2 hours every other day. Another issue, the applicants at the gated properties or secured apartment bldgs., why is it that those applicants are not on the ball enough to watch for you. They don't tell you that their name isn't on the legend, give you their gate code, etc. The agent may not even give you their unit number. Before we had cellphones, I would have to go to a payphone and call the applicant and then go back. We as examiners, must first and foremost lookout for ourselves. This means to develop another alternative to working for companies like APPS. ALWAYS, ALWAYS work for another company at the same time and try to find something better.

[EWAMN]

I worked for APPS in the past. I worked for Portamedic, then APPS bought them out. After one year of transition, APPS wanted me to take a 75% pay cut. With that, I would not even make minimum wage. If APPS did not have so many offices that take all the money, then examiners could get paid more. I feel the office in Minnesota is too greedy. It is so costly to drive around all day. So costly. Not just gas, but loss of value due to mileage, increased maintenance costs and insurance. Also, cancellations and no shows cause a great loss since you drove out there already and/or you are unable to fill that appointment time. The Minnesota office is so rude, arrogant and think they are so much better than the examiners. That is so sickening considering I have a college degree. I like to do exams for the independence and great ability to have flexibility, especially with young children.

I would love to go back to APPS, but I simply cannot do all that work for no money. The only way to succeed in getting good examiners is to raise the pay and not support an office of unneeded staff. APPS really should look at downsizing those offices. They probably could do 4-5 offices across the country and have examiners handle specific requests from agents. I simply do not understand why they need so many offices. Superior Mobile Medics was doing fine with ONE office. They just sold out due to the monopolization of this business.

[EWAMN]

If APPS CEO was smart, they would come up with a national, online scheduling system. Credential examiners and allow them to show their availability and the locations they can cover. Credential all the examiners and simply let them take orders. If you get presets, have customer service agents call examiners to get it covered. Stop wasting so much money on these local offices that don't really do anything but harass examiners. You want sales? I am sure you can still have sales people produce clients in each state without a local office. Examiners should be getting at least 50% if the cost of each exam. APPS should get 10% for their referral and the other 40% for administration and supplies.

[Guest]

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